(from l-r) Alexandra Gellner as Anne Frank and Wesli Spencer as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. in ‘Letters From Anne and Martin,” at a performance in Idaho of the play created from the words of Anne Frank and Dr. King and presented by the Anne Frank Center for Mutual Respect in New York City. Photo courtesy of the Wassmuth Center for Human Rights in Boise, Idaho.
I was shook up and brought to tears by Wesli Spencer’s powerful performance as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. in Letters from Anne and Martin, a two-person play, presented by the Anne Frank Center of Mutual Respect at the New York City School Librarians’ Conference in November. I had the honor of being on a panel with Wesli and Alexandra Gellner, who played Anne, after the show, where they talked about the show and I talked about my book, Martin & Anne, the Kindred Spirits of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and Anne Frank.
Not only was it incredible to compare notes on what inspired each of us to work on the play and the book, both of which were developed independently — each unaware of the connections that the others had discovered between these two great spirits, something I wrote about for Religion News Service here and for THE KIDS ARE ALL WRITE here. But I also had the joy of interviewing Alexandra and now Wesli, a remarkable, classically trained actor who has performed on stage, television and film, who, like his co-star, is a kind, caring and all around wonderful person. I am thrilled to welcome Wesli to THE KIDS ARE ALL WRITE!
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and Anne Frank. Photos via Creative Commons.
Please tell us how your journey with Letters from Anne and Martin began. How did you hear about the show?
Nancy, thanks for the invitation to do the interview. It is an honor to share the work and process with you and your audience on The Kids Are All Write. Also, congrats on your children’s book Martin and Anne, the Kindred Spirits of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and Anne Frank. It is a beautiful piece and a pleasure to read.
So, I initially heard about the “Letters” piece through an audition notice posted by the Anne Frank Center for Mutual Respect a few years ago in New York City. Although he is awesome and this audition would have normally come by the desk of my incredible agent U-Shin Kim at UGA, it was one that I personally came across through searching online. The post stated that they were looking for someone to play Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and I thought, “Wow! What an honor it would be to play someone who’s had such an indelible impact on this society, the world, and consequently my life.”
A page from Martin & Anne, the Kindred Spirits of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and Anne Frank, by Nancy Churnin, illustrated by Yevgenia Nayberg (Creston Books/Lerner Books)
What made you want to audition for it?
It seemed like a huge undertaking, but I jumped at the chance. It wasn’t until the audition that all of the parallels between Anne Frank and MLK Jr. became apparent. Hannah Vaughn, the initial creator of the the piece explained the motivation behind the concept. It hadn’t occurred to me that both MLK Jr. and Anne Frank were born in the year 1929. Then it all started to make sense! Of course they should be in a play together! Although they were both dealing with incomparable suffering, and it would not be appropriate to compare the Holocaust to the Apartheid American South (with its history of oppression as well as the extreme human rights violations that occurred during slavery), the voices of MLK Jr. and Anne Frank are so utopian that they both point to a possibility that transcends the suffering to a universally humane place.
It felt like it would be a unique exploration of a specific time period in American and German life, as well as an exploration of specific themes surrounding the huge societal, philosophical, political, and spiritual questions they were asking themselves as well as the people around them.
Wesli Spencer
What was the audition process like?
The audition required memorizing pieces of “Letter from Birmingham Jail” and coming into the Center a few times to share my interpretation of MLK Jr. with Hannah Vaughn. Each time she would give notes, adjustments, and pose questions that would inspire me to try taking certain parts of the piece to different psychological spaces.
Every “run” of the text, I felt as though there was so much to discover about the time period, within his message and vision, and about him as a person. If you combine that with the newfound parallel to Anne Frank’s message surrounding the Holocaust, you can easily see how the audition opened up an entirely new world of possibilities.
How many years and in how many places have you performed the part?
I have been performing the part for 3, almost 4, years now. We have done the show in too many states and cities to remember at this point, lol!
Alexandra Gellner and Wesli Spencer performing Letters From Anne and Martin for the librarians at the New York City School Librarians’ Conference at CitiField in Queens, New York City. The show travels easily. All you need is a stage, enough amplification so that your audience can hear the two actors and hearts ready to be transformed. Photo by Nancy Churnin.
You were incredible as Dr. King. There were so many parts that pulled at my heart and made me cry, so many parts where you went to quiet places in the soul and then, suddenly, you brought the thunder. I’m still shook up and moved by your performance and by the work of Alexandra Gellner as the vulnerable, sensitive, fierce Anne Frank by your side.
Wow. You are so kind! Thank you for your humbling words. Honestly, it’s Dr. King who did all of the work through his brilliant writing! Every time we share the piece I think, “What an incredible individual! This writing is so rich and full of power, purpose, and vision!” Big shoes to fill every time, but he left a clear map to follow. Plus, there is so much material out there on MLK, that the abundance in research material made the job easier to do. I’m simply there to express his words to as close to the truth that I imagine he intended.
Alexandra Gellner and Wesli Spencer in 'Letters from Anne and Martin. Photo courtesy of the Clinton Foundation in Little Rock, Ark
You trained in classical drama at the prestigious Guildhall School of Music and Drama in London, a conservatory in which 4,000 applicants apply for 25 spots each year. Their alumni include many of the UK's top actors (Ewan McGregor, Daniel Craig, Orlando Bloom, Lilly James). How did your training help you prepare for this role?
Yes, I trained at the Guildhall School of Music and Drama in London. It was, and still is, an excellent place. The training is rigorous, the instructors are dynamic and skilled, and the relationships you build among classmates can last a life time. The training helped me to develop a personal toolbox of methods to approach the material based on my skill set (every actor has their own skill set). For this piece, finding an entry-point into Martin Luther King, Jr.’s psyche was important. I wanted to be able to communicate his thoughts so clearly that an audience member would walk away understanding how pressing his perspective on the world was at the time, as well as inspired to find thoughts in their own experience of life.
His accent and public personae were a key ingredient to communicating him effectively because people have had so much direct access to footage and teachings of him (hopefully it worked….seems as though in your case, it came through for you). The accent training, voice, and speech training at Guildhall allowed me to apply a specific scientific approach to MLK’s cadence and speech. Obviously MLK left so much material to actively listen to, it made the job easier….but repetition, repetition, repetition help move the performance to a closer match.
At Guildhall I learned that if your goal is to reach the audience in a meaningful, authentic way through the story, there is no limit to the amount of work you can do to be more effective at communicating the person’s truth. In this case, the work continues. I continue to explore and add to the work of portraying MLK by always learning a new fact, finding another recording, discovering a new video, or reading about new detail of his life.
You grew up in Texas — where, exactly? Was there anything about Texas that prepared you for this role as well?
Although I am sure that would have been an awesome experience and I love Texas and Texans, I didn’t actually grow up there. We left Texas when I was very young, so my memories of Texas go through the beginning of elementary school, but I was born in a very small town about 30 miles outside of Dallas. I always share that I am American by birth, American and Global by blood, and British by training. There may be a few things going on inside my make up, but deep down I am a pure Texan cowboy in my heart.
With that being said, I do have some early memories of Texas that helped inform me of the social vestiges left over after the Civil Rights Movement in some ways. I would say that, growing up, my mother’s insistence on providing us with a lens through which we could see ourselves and others beyond our physical make-up as well as the mosaic of people we encountered through travel and moving with my father’s military work, I was prepared to understand sentiments of the South present in MLK’s writing and to see his vision of a world beyond those superficial traps.
The Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. speaks at an interfaith civil rights rally at the Cow Palace in San Francisco on June 30, 1964. Photo by George Conklin/Creative Commons
Has the play changed your conception of Dr. King in any way and if so, how so? Was there anything about the “Letter from Birmingham Jail” and sharing the stage with an actress playing Anne Frank that has surprised you?
Before the play I’d always thought of MLK Jr. as an iconic, motivating orator. This play really opened an opportunity to explore his introspective side. The process of rehearsing with the idea of being alone in jail, writing the “Letter,” encouraged that kind of deep, introspective thinking.
What surprised me most about sharing the stage with Alex (Alexandra) as Anne Frank was the amount of questioning present in Anne Frank’s mind. Hearing Anne’s words aloud, the mentality of a young person comes through so clearly…. “This is happening, but why? Why are people doing these things? When will it end? What’s the point?” etc. That experience reminds me that questions are so important.
Alexandra Gellner and Wesli Spencer, who have gotten to be good friends, in a relaxed moment, before changing into costume and getting into character for Letters From Anne and Martin at CitiField in Queens, where they performed for the New York City School Librarians’ Conference. (Photo by Nancy Churnin)
Also, sharing the stage and finding the moments to “connect” as MLK and Anne Frank was surprising in the way that every time it happens, I am somehow reminded that although they never actually physically met in person, they shared something in their curiosity, intelligence, empathy, and perspective that was electrifying.
I am also surprised that no matter how many times we have performed this piece, it constantly feels fresh and alive. Alexandra and I have performed so many times, yet every rehearsal we discover a new layer of each of the figures. It’s a pleasure to share the stage with an actor who is interested in that kind of exploration.
An entry in the diary of Anne Frank from Sept. 28, 1942. Photo courtesy of Creative Commons
Has the play changed your conception of Anne Frank in any way and if so, how so? Was there anything about hearing words from Anne Frank’s diary spoken on the same stage as your Dr. King speaks that has affected your perception of her?
Being a part of the play encouraged research into the Holocaust beyond what I’d learned in school and through various media outlets and films over the years. That in-depth research as an adult led to some truly eye-awakening moments of the horrific nature of genocide. This changed my concept of Anne Frank because it brought to light how uniquely brave and mature she was. To be questioning the war as “not normal” in the face of war at that age was anomalous. She was at an age during which most teenagers are still blindly accepting the environment around them as “the way things are supposed to be” (because they have no other reference point) speaks to her incredible personal insight.
I became much more impressed and in awe of her legacy. Hearing words from Anne Frank’s diary spoken on the same stage while playing Dr. King leads me to believe that there are some natural laws of humanity that even a young person can understand. Dr. King had the luxury of an excellent education, years of personal experience, and a huge social following that probably cemented and confirmed many of the beliefs he grew to develop at an early age.
Anne Frank came to these understandings essentially on her own within the private moments of her own mind, with none of the same external support to strengthen these views beyond her personal intuition about life. I have a newfound respect for her. If even a child can understand when human rights laws are being egregiously violated and envision a world without those horrors, then there is no excuse for adults; her curiosity about how her society came to be in the situation she experienced is fascinating. Yet, she was also somehow able to maintain some sense of normalcy through her abnormal circumstance without succumbing to despondency. Wow.
A letter from a young fan after seeing the show. Photo courtesy of Anne Frank Center for Mutual Respect
Has the play had a different resonance with audiences of different ages and in different parts of the country? Can you give examples?
Yes, adults and teenagers seem to make so many parallels between the play and their current experiences in America. In many of the cities across the country outside of New York City, the audiences are very interested in figuring out how to apply the lessons of Anne Frank and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to their everyday life right now. It’s extremely salient. Particularly in places that have seen a rise in hate crimes and anti-Semitism, they are interested in finding a way to heal their communities; they also are dedicated to send the message that their communities are “no place” for that kind of illness. For example, in Boise, Idaho the community responded to the hateful anti-Semitic vandalization of their Anne Frank Human Rights Memorial at the Wassmuth Center for Human Rights by bringing our play to the community for multiple showings, busing thousands of students to see the show from around the state, and by expanding their Anne Frank Human Rights Memorial with a huge construction expansion campaign.
The Anne Frank Human Rights Memorial in Boise, Idaho
That message says “We will grow through this and expand. The hate doesn’t destroy us, it makes us stronger and expands us.” In Florida, our play was used to foster community relations discussions about how to combat destructive forces and mindsets. When we perform for elementary school children they are usually more interested in the minute details of what life was like inside of an attic for Anne Frank and her family, or the details of Martin Luther King Jr.’s personal experiences while protesting. Their responses typically indicate children who are at a stage of development in which they are simply trying to envision the exact world in which Anne Frank and MLK Jr. lived through an exercise of their imaginations.
Why do you think it’s important for the stories of these two remarkable people to share a stage?
It is important for these stories to be shared on the same stage not only because of the parallels that existed within their respective communities, but because it also sends a message of combined unity. The combined story-telling gives people hope in a way. Their messages of a society that focuses on universal humanity bring forth a light that acts as catalysts for one another. It’s like two Superheroes teaming up at a time when their lessons are greatly needed. Their stories remind us that even in the worst of scenarios (their experiences were under much harsher conditions) we can still be resilient.
I was honored to be on a panel with you and Alexandra Gellner at the NYC School Librarians Conference in November, talking about your play and my book, Martin & Anne, the Kindred Spirits of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and Anne Frank. I am grateful to you both for your kind words about the book. Can you share your thoughts about how the play and book can work together — what they have in common and how they are different in complementary ways?
Your book is incredible. Yes, they can definitely work in tandem and it was an honor to be on a panel with you! I think it would be great to be able to do a combined project, perhaps at museums, theaters, schools and universities , and in communities in which we feature your book as an introduction to the play while including a similar combined panel at the end. For example if it’s for a school, perhaps we could one day include your book as a part of our “From Bystander to Ally” workshop in which students learn how to become active members in their society against oppression. MLK was clearly the opposite of a bystander and the Frank family relied on allies to assist them. I can totally envision your book being included in that workshop as a way for young people to make the connection between the two figures’ lives.
I could also see your book being a lead-up read when “Letters” makes its way to a city theater. Perhaps it could be offered for purchase before and after the performance so that people can take the message home with them in a tangible way. In that sense our projects complement one another. They differ in that while your book offers imagery through illustration of each of Anne and Martin’s stories, through a play’s performance we have the opportunity to bring their narratives to life in the flesh, with their own words.
There is something special about hearing words spoken live that creates a unique symbiotic relationship with an audience. Forgive me if I have trouble explaining this because the dynamic of the interplay between an audience of a play and the actors is an experience that can be challenging to write about because it is so visceral it only be felt in the moment. Everyone who has seen live theater understands this communicative relationship.
A page from Martin & Anne, the Kindred Spirits of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and Anne Frank by Nancy Churnin, illustrated by Yevgenia Nayberg (Creston Books/Lerner Books)
My theory is that if we (the actors) communicate the truths in the right way, the audience walks away with an understanding of the people in the play that resonates on multiple levels; they walk away with an experience they feel so deeply that it will continue to “be” with them in intangible ways. An illustrated book provides a different function. While a play provides the audience with an understanding of real, living people, a book can bring a clarity to the narrative of their lives that is sometimes lost in live theater. With your book, they can follow the series of events that shifted the trajectory of Anne Frank and Dr. King’s lives in easy to understand ways. That is what I enjoy about your book. The images stay with me. I can “see” their lives. With a play, the feelings can stay with you. You can “feel” their lives.
What made you want to be an actor? How does this play fit in with your mission for yourself?
There are so many things that factored into the happenstance of me becoming an actor. I kind of fell into it in a way. In undergrad, I was pre-law and had planned to be a lawyer. Growing up, I was always athletic and active. I was also a bit of a “nerd”, being a part of a Magnet program called the International Baccalaureate which encouraged heavy involvement in school activities outside of the rigorous curriculum. One day, a theater teacher who kind of knew me around campus through my various school activities and sports suggested that I audition for a play she and her students were putting on. After that experience, she said, “Hey, you can really do this, you should give this some thought as a real profession. I believe you will have a career.” Something about my “vessel” she said...still trying to fully understand what she meant, lol.
That “nudge” was always there through undergrad. Long story short, I ended up landing an agent, getting a classical training, and making choices that moved me in that direction. However, I am still involved in the many activities of filling my mind with new knowledge and remaining athletic (distance runner here, lol); those activities actually help with my work as an actor on multiple levels. This play allows me to apply my “story telling” tools. By sharing this play over the years with such diverse audiences, I have learned how to become a more effective actor on stage. There is a “listening” that happens while performing. This play fits into that mission to be ever-learning, ever-listening, ever-present, and ever-growing in ways that allows people to see themselves through the characters; it’s about you (as an audience member) after all, and it’s for you as a person living your own life with your own story.
I believe playing such a well-known, iconic figure, who’s life has continued to echo through society has also helped me to become a better person...simply by default. Reading MLK Jr’s words over and over, speaking them repetitively over the years kind of does something to you! Lol. Try it, I think you have will know if you discover it for yourself. I believe that actors have to have a large capacity for understanding the scope of the human experience. What better way to expand that capacity than to “get into the minds” of two people who have helped move our world into a more universally humane space?
What is the most important thing you want people to know about Dr. King and Anne Frank?
I want people to know that as much as we deify them in our minds because of their contributions to society, they were everyday people who simply made the choices they thought would make the world a better place. Making these kinds of choices is easy to do. These positive choices are also our responsibility as the benefactors of a wonderful society. It is our personal responsibility to participate in society by continuing their traditions through action; they are counting on us to follow the map their legacies left.
Is there any other work you are particularly proud of that you would like to share with us that you have done or are looking forward to doing?
Currently I am in a project that’s been on rotation on USA Channel ShortsTV through Direct TV and AT&T U-Verse called Brian Mickler, directed by an excellent young director, Michael Jackson. It’s a short film about a young man living in Harlem who’s working through symptoms of mental illness; I play Brian Mickler. I share that piece with you right now because it highlights a subject that is usually associated with shame….mental health. By reflecting someone’s life who’s experiencing mental health issues through this short film, perhaps we can deconstruct the negative taboos of the subject while bringing light to a community issue; hopefully the film encourages positive steps as people affected by those issues see their stories told on screen.
If people miss it on TV, they can catch that film, which is part of a larger online web-series called “Harlemites” at www.harlemites.com that delves into five different lives of Harlem residents whose lives interconnect and overlap in subtle ways. I always look forward to whatever story life brings my way; it has a funny way of bringing interesting pieces to delve into.
Thank you so much, Wes, for your incredible performance, your supportive words for my book and for hanging out with us on THE KIDS ARE ALL WRITE. Is there anything you would like to add?
Just a huge “thank you” for the opportunity to share. And a “thank you” for your work, Nancy. I have no doubt that your book is currently changing lives for the better. It is an honor to be doing this kind of work with you. I hope your book’s message spreads to as many minds as possible! Wishing you the best! Thank you, readers of The Kids Are All Write for taking the time to read this interview!
Want to see Wes in Letters From Anne and Martin? You can find a schedule of shows or book this touring show through the Anne Frank Center for Mutual Respect here.